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Discipline & Respect

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Original Message Post # 1
Wed 23rd Apr 2008 00:10
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
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Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164

Since January 1986 I have only known one way of learning this art and that is a disciplined way I am strict in class and strict in what I host but very fair, I have never used first names with Masters or my seniors let alone Black Belts, If you e-mail me I would return by using only your last name and Mr or Sir and end by signing my name as 'Chris' why? to show I have no ego and that I am approachable to discuss anything.

Now the reason I have chosen top post is this I have a bee in my bonnit and this is I believe that certain people believe that myself and my instructors and black belts have ego's, Why? because we have a set uniform dress (Not Dobok) and are extreamist in how conduct should be displayed in and out of the Do-Jangs. We are not big opposed to many of the groups.
 
We are oftern accused as having egos just beacuse the way we do things, everything has to be correct and because we insist all members know the hand shake and insist that system of rank is important amoungst our ranks- peacking order can not be denied, You see we see Tae Kwon Do as a Martial Art meaning members are like solders and a system of rank MUST be in place to protect the army from failing, meaning we MUST know who our seniors are and respect the fact they are where they are today for blood and sweat even if some times we may dissagree with our seniors actions or there words.
 
I choose to end of my post as Mr Snow beacuse I feel just beacuse respect has broken down in this art  or rather somtimes it feels that way especially with NON ITF'ers, I refuse to follow suit, I hate meeting seniors who say just call me 'fred' which I have never done even if they have said do it. The other arts say 'Sensay' Master and are extreamly respectful when communicating to each other so why are we different?
 
This is not to bash anyone as that is a waiste of energy, I have no clue what others feel on the matter of discipline and respect but please don't think LTSI has ego's we train hard, respect rank and believe the wareing of Black Belt is significance of a persons achievments so we respect fellow degree members as the loyal and commited ones who build our art and organisations.
 
Yes ALL our Black Belts ware the ITF badge on the blazer because we are proud to be part of one of the best products in the world.
 
We have removed 5 Black Belt members from the LTSI  to date over the years as they were not students who followed or respected our groups ways or rules, Harsh but if you want to be part of an army with real values you respect its ways. Often the change over from colour belt to black ruines the students where we believe you should never change just because promotion has been granted, Like a job you get promoted and become arrogant unbarable to work with you should be sacked!
 
In short if in signing my name and the way I or my members pressent ourself at events makes you feel we have egos please think about the above, As this is our way we choose to live and teach the art - 'I will respect my instructors and seniors' its one of the tenets so surely it should also go into practice as well.
 
End of rant Angry
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 2
Top Wed 23rd Apr 2008 19:13
Michael Boik
Joined: 15/04/2007
Topics: 11 Replies: 35
Mr. Snow, I don't think anyone would disagree with you on this matter. ITF has a strong military background and it's philosophy is based around the dicsipline, respect, honor, etc. of the military. I always show respect to my fellow classmates whether they are low or hi rank, adult or junior. Yes sir, yes maam, how to bow, how to shake hands, I feel are all part of the "Do" and what makes learning TKD that much more special. You hope that the dicipline will stay with the student after class especially with the juniors towards their Parents, family, and friends.

Mike
Taekwon!!

Mike

www.drysdaletkd.com

Post # 3
Top Thu 24th Apr 2008 08:10
Jon_Mackey

IRL-4-1033
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Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
My ideas behind respect and protocol differ slightly, or maybe they don't and we all agree, which i'm sure would be the case.
I believe real respect is something to be earned and not demanded through protocol or military aspects of training. I could perform all the necessary protocol at a Do Jang, bow and shake hands in the correct Taekwon-Do way, I could call you sir or ma'am but that doesn't mean I respect you. Respect is something completely seperate and far more important. Respect is embodied in the tenets, the tenets are not mere words, but ideals and a part of training! Training? yes indeed - we train our bodies in the Do Jang, outside of that we need to take heed of our actions and train ourselves to be better people. All of which rises above the need for protocol, which of course is important and has its place.
Teaching your students the real importance of respect in life is far more important as it is the real 'Do' - 'Do' cannot by summed up as ceremonial protocol in my opinion.
Some Zen and confucian concepts are really excellent ways of putting across correct ideals behind respect, these are subjects I like to discuss from time to time in the Do Jang as they are very relevant.
ps - Mr Snow, everyone has an ego, to not have one means you have passed a into a very spiritual realm, the order of the day is to ensure your ego doesn't direct the way you live your life, as Taekwon-Doists our goal should be to become aware of the ego and be mindful of its presence and how it dictates so much of our emotions and thoughts. We need to deconstruct it and use it in a selfless manner. I've always found you to be a real help on the forums and very dedicated to your art, so don't worry what others say about your schools, you are obviously doing something right!
Thats my little bit!
Have a good day everyone,
Jon
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 4
Top Thu 24th Apr 2008 08:59
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
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Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
Hi Mr Mackey,
I too follow your direction on respect - I always say to my members dont give me respect I will earn it over time, Normally by 6th kup my students will offer to help where they can at events etc and have the respect I think all Martial Artist shoud have for each other.

As an instructor I lead by example and I always say to the other instructors of LTSI you MUST try and do the same, I am always the first at the class and last to leave. I never ask of anyone what I can not do and I am always the first ready to spar and deomstrate how a break should be executed on the boards.

I am harsh at times - I remember taking a cigeret out of a Black Belts mouth standing outside my main DO-Jang once and crushing it in front of him. He got very stroppy so I took him to the side and said "The learning of Tae Kwon Do promotes a sport side and smoking go's against what we promote" I said to him I have no problem if you smoke, drink take drugs as that is your choice but I do if it's done where my juniors members can see you and there may be a chance they will copy your actions. That guy never lit a cigeret up out side my school, come to think of it NO one has now as they respect my view.

The 'DO' side you are right but as an instructor I provide a service much deeper then most as over years I have help many with problems and gone further then what many would. When I speak, teach I speak about my past and it has been a tough one so I use the negatives to help others. At this time I am helping a student who partner has cancer but he knows if he needs a person to speak to I am there anytime.
 
I am oftern commenting on the last oath 'I shall build a more piecful world' as practicioners this is what we all can do by helping our members know the learning of the art is not about fighting but learning to accept one an other regardless of race or religion and learn an art that has NO boundaries..... Dam where did that come fromShocked

On Sunday an Independent 4th Degree said certain people think LTSI are too stiff in the coller, I replied really why? Personally I think its all to do with a situation at our last S.E.Opens a group of independents 4,5,6th Degrees were slating the ITF and I walked in on it, I said sorry but I cant be part of this as I promote the product as I believe in it and walked out. Now it seems we are viewd as too stiff in the collier - Hence my rant, sorry all.
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 5
Top Thu 24th Apr 2008 09:30
Jon_Mackey

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Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
This is where ranting should go! No need to be sorry Mr Snow, you are as passionate about the art as the rest of us, and things like that can really 'P' us off.
Keep up the good work, your life experience is obviously a great tool for helping others, and as long as you see the good results, thats all that matters!

I was chuckling at the thought of you taking the cigerette out of that chaps mouth, are you sure you're not Clint Eastwood disguised as a Taekwon-Do instructor haha?
In fairness I whole heartedly agree!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
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