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The white stripe on Junior Black Belts

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Original Message Post # 1
Thu 26th Jun 2008 08:25
Mr Snow

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Having taught kids for a few years now I was wondering do Juniors under a certain age ware the BB with white stripes on, I have a number of kids making Degree soon, The LTSI has always given them a Full BB yet thinking about it with under 11's they are NOT taught all the ITF ways, sine wave, kinetic linking etc.
 
I have always been on the impression under 14's MUST ware BB's with stripe on yet we have never done it,  is this correct or not? Also do the members of other orgs make these kids resit the Degree or is the belt changed automatically.
 
Our JNRS have to do everything the seniors do including have to break, any imput on the subject,
 
BTW anyone else signed up for the www.tkdsource.com yet, Looks like a good web that will help all in the ITF world.
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 2
Top Thu 26th Jun 2008 12:33
Jon_Mackey

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Hi MrSnow,
I never seen the white stripe implemented to be honest although it does say so in the book.

I've signed up for tkdsource, I think if it works well it could be a great asset.

Jon
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 3
Top Fri 27th Jun 2008 17:43
Chris Peel

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Interesting topic Mr Snow.  We don't put stripes on our junior Balck Belts so would be interesting to see what the official ITF stance is.
 
On a side note I would be cautious about letting juniors break.  Any damage to bones whilst they are developing can give serious implications for the future.
Post # 4
Top Fri 27th Jun 2008 20:32
Mr Snow

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Hi Mr Peel,
Over 13's are always asked to break on Degree exams -worn board which are extreamly weak but it makes them think they have done what our adults are doing.

With regards to stripes - the only group I have seen ever ware them is the 'Impact' group under Master Nadizi, Thats why I asked as I have never seen anyone else ware them apart from BUTF but they are not ITF.
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 5
Top Thu 10th Jul 2008 08:35
Michael Munyon

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Greetings,

I have seen a few folks actually utilize the white stripe running through the middle of the black belt. I have seen these belts for sale through the Cazotto web site (hope I spelled that right).

What I like about it is that it awards the rank of black belt to the student and keeps the white (Innocence) entact.

I've also seen folks use the WTF Poomse belt. Half Red and Half Black. However, this is not the ITF way.

Michael Munyon, VI Dan
US-ITF Armed Forces Director
Serving America, Armed Forces and the ITF
Post # 6
Top Tue 2nd Dec 2008 12:55
Alasdair Walkinshaw

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Our old group the AMA used the white stripe down the junior BB. All junior BBs had to resit the grading at age 17. Juniors were not allowed to grade beyond 1st degree!!!

So for example my daughter who achieved her 1st degree at age 9 would have to wait for another 8 years to sit the same grading and then have to wait another couple of years before doing the 2nd degree.

Is the policy the same with the ITF??? I think if we look at black belt retention, it is all too obvious that a lot of juniors that could become fantastic TKD practitioners in the future will lose heart and drift away. I have seen it first hand with one especially talented young lad about 5 years ago, it is a crying shame to lose the future of our art in this way.

Any thoughts???
Post # 7
Top Sat 3rd Jan 2009 23:12
G Horan

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Hi Alasdair,
At the moment the ITF criteria is 1st dan 12yrs old, 2nd dan 14.5 yrs old, 3rd dan 17yrs old and 4th dan 21 years old. But the 1st dan is over looked as I have some 9/10yr olds at 1st dan. I tent to stick to the right ages after that. I would like to see a junior black belt structure as we could mantain our integrity then!! maybe have junior 1st-3rd dan white stripe through the middle! with no age requirements but then they have to re-take a grading when they reach a certain age? Just a thought.

Regards
Glenn.
Post # 8
Top Tue 6th Jan 2009 13:25
Alasdair Walkinshaw

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Hi Glenn,
I remember the comments made by parents of the "Junior BBs" who had the white stripe, firstly they hated the fact that the white stripe was there, but when they found out that they had to re-take the grading when older to get the full black belt that was the last we saw of them!!!

I do like the age requirement thing though, I recently saw a young girl from an independent group who is only 10 years old now and is wearing a 2nd degree belt!!! I don't think someone of that age would be able to fully comprehend everything they have been taught, but that is just my opinion, I may be very wrong though!!!

Take note I said "what they have been taught" and not "what they have learned"!!!
Post # 9
Top Thu 8th Jan 2009 22:16
Ben Thompson

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Hello everyone,

Perhaps some views and thoughts from someone who graded to First Dan the day after their 9th birthday!

I'm now 11 years old having been a Black Belt for 2.5 years and seen others grade over me.  The idea of a Junior White Stripe I'm not keen on  ... it gives the impression of not the real deal, perhaps a kiddy pretend belt.  Strangely though, to re-grade when of age wouldn't bother me.  In a sense, I do like the age requirement and understand the point of view from adult Black Belts.  However, there is a downside though -- an older-than-me current Blue Belt would become a Second Dan ahead of me, so I could be in a situation where the Black Belt of 5.5 years would have to "give way" to the Black Belt of 18 months!

Referring to the "taught" reference ... I frequently read up on the theory, right from beginner to my current level and if I don't understand something I ask my parents, or my Instructor to explain it to me.

In the end, it doesn't really matter how long it takes.  TaeKwon-Do is all about respect and as I show this to my Seniors, they happily return it.  I began training at the age of 6 years under the instruction of Mr. Glenn Horan and he has taught me that TaeKwon-Do is not just about the physical aspects, but also helpful in my everyday life.

Ben Thompson

Post # 10
Top Thu 15th Jan 2009 19:00
Alasdair Walkinshaw

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Quote from Ben Thompson - 8th Jan 2009 22:16 View

Hello everyone,

Perhaps some views and thoughts from someone who graded to First Dan the day after their 9th birthday!

I'm now 11 years old having been a Black Belt for 2.5 years and seen others grade over me.  The idea of a Junior White Stripe I'm not keen on  ... it gives the impression of not the real deal, perhaps a kiddy pretend belt.  Strangely though, to re-grade when of age wouldn't bother me.  In a sense, I do like the age requirement and understand the point of view from adult Black Belts.  However, there is a downside though -- an older-than-me current Blue Belt would become a Second Dan ahead of me, so I could be in a situation where the Black Belt of 5.5 years would have to "give way" to the Black Belt of 18 months!

Referring to the "taught" reference ... I frequently read up on the theory, right from beginner to my current level and if I don't understand something I ask my parents, or my Instructor to explain it to me.

In the end, it doesn't really matter how long it takes.  TaeKwon-Do is all about respect and as I show this to my Seniors, they happily return it.  I began training at the age of 6 years under the instruction of Mr. Glenn Horan and he has taught me that TaeKwon-Do is not just about the physical aspects, but also helpful in my everyday life.

Ben Thompson

Ben,

It is very clear from your reply that you have a very sensible head on those young shoulders of yours and all credit to you for it!!!

Personally i do not care if a 1st degree is 6 or 60 years old, if they have achieved that grade then they deserve the respect that is due to them for making the grade so to speak. My daughter is the same as you, she has been a 1st degree now for 2.5 years and is still training towards that 2nd degree. She affords the same respect that any other 1st degree does the same as you do.

The white stripe is a very bad idea young Mr Thompson has hit the nail on the head - it can be taken as being a "not really a black belt" and some may not respect the grade.

Just my ramblings from my own experience.

Post # 11
Top Sun 18th Jan 2009 10:53
Mr Snow

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Hi All,
We won't issue white stripe belts, from expierance it will not work we make all juniors do exactly the same grading apart from the breaking that is.

The only downside is the matchurity level is somtimes not there with the young, however that said I have met many kid black belts who are very well behaved and have good conduct. I suppose it go'es down to the coach teaching them.

Tae Kwon
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 12
Top Sun 18th Jan 2009 12:51
K_Murray
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 0 Replies: 2
Hi All, just thought I'd pop on and have a look around. Hope you dont mind me revisiting after all this time.

As for the topic, our club used to do the junior white stripe system and I think what is missing with it is the correct meaning behind the belt. I think it gives the impression to juniors that they are good enough fall short because they are not old enough.

With what Mr Horan said about the ages for each deg level, i think it works well. I was 13 when I received my black belt but that was after a couple of years break in between from when I started (when I was 6) and I think just enough time and involvement with the TKD way of life to understand what the belt represents. It's like being old enough to drink or drive. When you get to that age and are allowed to be grown up enough to learn how to drive its a sense of maturity that you've waited for a gained the right to have. Same with the black belt. I happen to think 11 is a bit too young but still, if having started as young as 5 or 6 an 11 year old should.... know how important it is to be presented with the belt. And having to wait until you're 21 for your 4th? Absolutely right as I think being given a 4th deg at 16 I would have been too young for the responsibility that should follow with that rank. Am I making any sense here? Shoot me down if not :)

Hope you are all well.
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