192 High Street (1st Floor)
West Drayton, Middlesex
United Kingdom UB7 7BE
Founder President  General Choi Hong Hi (1918-2002)
 Grand Master Choi Jung Hwa

ITF Forum > General Forum > General Discussion

back to forum | Help | Search

Major decision!

Kodang returns
36 Replies
Jump to the bottom of the page Posts 1 to 20 of 37
1 2 > last
 Start a new topic
Original Message Post # 1
Tue 24th Jun 2008 12:21
Jon_Mackey

IRL-4-1033
View Profile
Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
The ITF have renamed Juche - Kodang.
 
This is a big move, how do people feel about it?
Personally I think Master Choi is to be congratulated for making such hard desicions, no doubt it will be ridiculed by other groups purporting to be the ITF.
 
Here is information on the Juche philosophy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche
 
Thoughts?
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 2
Top Tue 24th Jun 2008 17:54
Chris Peel

GBR-4-1042
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 0 Replies: 16

I think it is a very brave and important decision, but definately sends a clear message.  Brilliant move!!! 

Just wish we had also gone back to original pattern, stood half a chance with that one.
Post # 3
Top Tue 24th Jun 2008 18:45
juestkd

USA-8-1005
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 0 Replies: 1
It is a major decision to do this and moving forward. This may require President Choi to update or write a new book and bring in more of his own teaching and legacy.

Discipline is your greatest Weapon in Life Gordon Jue

Post # 4
Top Tue 24th Jun 2008 22:17
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
Are we having to learn a new meaning to Ko-Dang or will the jue chai meaning sufice, also if we are calling it KO-DANG then what about the independents who practice the pattern KO-DANG..... kinda gonna cause some majour confusion between the two camps.... ITF and NON ITF'ers
 
Can you please answer these questions admin
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 5
Top Tue 24th Jun 2008 22:58
Jon_Mackey

IRL-4-1033
View Profile
Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
It won't cause that much confusion. As it stands we do a different pattern to those who left the ITF system. We still do a different pattern, it shares the same name, thats all really.
I really like the old Juche pattern, so I'm glad it is remaining. When you think of it from Korean terms, how as a South Korean it must feel to practice and learn a pattern that was designed with your nemises in mind, the enemy of the people- kind of hard I guess. It should help Master Choi build a new relationship with the SK establishment.

Mr Snow here is the interpretation of Ko Dang ;

KO-DANG (39): IS THE PSEUDONYM OF THE PATRIOT CHO MAN SIK WHO DEDICATED HIS LIFE TO THE INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT AND EDUCATION OF HIS PEOPLE. THE 39 MOVEMENTS REFER TO HIS TIMES OF IMPRISONMENT AND HIS BIRTHPLACE ON THE 39 DEGREES PARALLEL.

Master Dalton wrote a fine thesis on the subject of Juche and KoDang, it can be read here;
http://www.iutf-tkd.com/thesis%20-Mr.Dalton.html
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 6
Top Wed 25th Jun 2008 00:01
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
So we will have to change the meaning? you like the pattern I hate the split kick but then again I have never been able to do it ..... Thanks for the info

C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 7
Top Wed 25th Jun 2008 08:29
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
youch, now thats a thesis, Now I understand better why many don't like the pattern being called Ju-Chai - Well KO-DANG it is then...... I wonder if they will adopt KO-DANG and bin Ju - Chai ..... Hope not.
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 8
Top Wed 25th Jun 2008 16:42
Jon_Mackey

IRL-4-1033
View Profile
Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
There is an interesting post on another forum, I won't copy and paste as arguments between forum is always damaging. But none the less the poster claimed that the person Kodang was named after was a christian fundamentalist, thats true, then he says that this type of 'ism went on to oppress many with right wing fundamentalist views, including homophobia, xzenophobia and that the KKK are infact christian nationalists. He reckons Juche was a better philosophy if worked correctly. Man is the master of his own destiny... nothing wrong with that I suppose.
Without causing offence with that, can anyone shed some thoughts on whether Cho Man Shik as a christian nationalist was any worse or better than those behind the Juche philosophy?
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 9
Top Thu 26th Jun 2008 15:33
M. Hildering

NED-3-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 1 Replies: 20
Wow. That is a change.

I've read the thesis of Master Dalton and i must say that he has a point. I guess there is nothing wrong with just accepting the things as they are, and continue our journey with the guidance of Grandmaster Choi Jung Hwa and his assistants.

After all, Taekwon-do still is young and developing.
Taekwon!
 
~ Never leave people confused ~
Post # 10
Top Thu 26th Jun 2008 23:59
M. Hildering

NED-3-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 1 Replies: 20
I wonder, is the pattern changed as well?

I've heard people saying that Ko-Dang used to be another pattern as well.. It makes sense though, because the pattern of Juche is related to Mt Baekdu, which has its connection with the political ideas.
Taekwon!
 
~ Never leave people confused ~
Post # 11
Top Fri 27th Jun 2008 08:20
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
I have have been contacted by some non ITF'ers by e-mail about the change in name and they are calling it crazy move or ridiculas. I just reply with I did not make the change and you are not ITF so I would not let it bother you. Seems some dont like the truth due to there replies.....

I suppose thats whats expected when you work with the NON ITF'ers the way our group does, I cant help but laugth, like millions in the world we have NO CONTROL of what the ITF chooses to adopt or change :-)

C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 12
Top Fri 27th Jun 2008 11:15
Mark Skyrme

GBR-7-1014
View Profile
Joined: 10/01/2007
Topics: 41 Replies: 148
The ITF is in constant state of self improvement and evolution. Those who choose not to be a part of it will inevitably find themselves being left behind and there technique outdated.
 
Crazy how it seems to be Non-ITF people who put up the biggest opposition to evolution?
A great deal of ex ITF or even Independents have made huge sums of money on the back of ITF syllabus with Books, DVDs, Logos and Doboks etc. I suppose any change by the ITF now makes them obsolete and could hit them financially.
 
Easy solution, Join the ITF and evolve with us...
 
Mark Skyrme

facile est inventis addere.
it is easy to add to things already invented.
www.tkd.co.uk

Post # 13
Top Fri 27th Jun 2008 12:34
Jon_Mackey

IRL-4-1033
View Profile
Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
Spot on Mr Skrme,
Just on the Baekdu mountain bit. As I have already stated, I have a Korean family as members of one of my clubs and they love to share their knowledge about their homeland.

Baekdu mountain has no place in the Juche philosophy. Baekdu is a sacred place cherished by all the Korean people, as their history states that the land that became Korea evolved from this mountain (it's a volcano). It is still held as a very spiritual place and is said to evoke the spirit of the Korean people, remember the divide is only a relatively new phenomenon compared to the history of Korea.
How Mount Baekdu got tangled up with the Juche concept is that while Kim Il Sung was allegedly organising the resistance against the Japanses he used mount Baekdu as a base, this is where his son is said to have been born - Kim Jong Il. Probably propaganda.
Baekdu happens to be deep in North Korea, but none the less mean alot to all the Korean people as opposed to being hijacked by the Oligarchy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekdu_Mountain
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 14
Top Fri 27th Jun 2008 22:16
M. Hildering

NED-3-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 1 Replies: 20
I see.

Still, i'm a bit confused by this change; Is it only the name of the pattern that is changed? Or is the whole pattern 'Juche' being replaced with the original pattern 'Ko-Dang'?

My instructor said that some people (i don't know which organisation) were already shouting 'Ko-Dang' instead of 'Juche' at the end of the 'Juche' pattern. This was before GM Choi made this change.
Taekwon!
 
~ Never leave people confused ~
Post # 15
Top Sat 28th Jun 2008 00:03
Jon_Mackey

IRL-4-1033
View Profile
Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
I think the actual pattern remains the same and the name has just changed.

Maybe someone can clairify it.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 16
Top Sat 28th Jun 2008 09:56
user16365

AUS-4-1029
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 0 Replies: 4
Jon et al,

I have it on reliable authority that the pattern remains the same. Only the names are changed.

Wow. A Led Zepplin-Bon Jovi combined reference in this, my first post in nearly two years!

p
Post # 17
Top Sat 28th Jun 2008 12:26
Jon_Mackey

IRL-4-1033
View Profile
Joined: 08/07/2007
Topics: 34 Replies: 168
Hey Patrick!
How the hell are you!

Long time no read ;)
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde
 
 
Post # 18
Top Sat 28th Jun 2008 14:34
Michael Boik
Joined: 15/04/2007
Topics: 11 Replies: 35
I don't know why non-ITF people are complaining. They never follow the teachings of the ITF anyways. They think they are doing the patterns correctly, but they are not. they do step sparring different and put their own spin on it. They don't follow the Philosophy( or Do) of the ITF. They kick and punch and call it Taekwon-do is all they do.
Taekwon!!

Mike

www.drysdaletkd.com

Post # 19
Top Sat 28th Jun 2008 15:40
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
Aint that the truth Sir, our group has always allowed outsiders into our events mainly for finances and to make numbers at events. You are right what they call TKD we see as just hype, I remember one of them saying why so much bounce in my patterns, I replied its called sign wave not bounce he look dum struck,,,, he had no clue and he was a 3rd Dan.

ITF certs were issued and his coach said who is a 4th Dan 'They look good but there not really recognised world wide' My reply really.... shows how much you really know.

Thats the hype you yhave to accept if you mingle with them....
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 20
Top Sat 28th Jun 2008 20:55
sean mullin

GBR-4-1090
View Profile
Joined: 03/01/2008
Topics: 6 Replies: 28
the bottom line is we choose to be with master choi and follow his teachings and if you don't agree with the path he is leading us on then maybe you need to look somewhere else. i only joined up with imperial in the uk in feb this year after being in one of the other itf groups but already i see more forward thinking and evolution in 4 months than i did in years with the other group. nothing else in the world stands still without getting stale and outdated so why should taekwon-do be any different. my only concern is that as the itf evolves other groups calling themselves itf 'style' get so far away from what we are teaching they are more or less doing a different martial art but still promoting themselves as authentic tkd. just my honest opinion.

taekwon
Jump to the top of the page Posts 1 to 20 of 37
1 2 > last
 Start a new topic
© International Taekwon-Do Federation