192 High Street (1st Floor)
West Drayton, Middlesex
United Kingdom UB7 7BE
Founder President  General Choi Hong Hi (1918-2002)
 Grand Master Choi Jung Hwa

ITF Forum > General Forum > General Discussion

back to forum | Help | Search

Will MMA kill tradiditional arts

10 Replies
Jump to the bottom of the page Posts 1 to 11 of 11
 Start a new topic
Original Message Post # 1
Mon 14th Apr 2008 00:43
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
Hi all,
        I got a question (Yes yet another one) MMA do you feel it will kill the traditional arts like TKD or Karate. I am sure those that run clubs if you look at your enrolments of late you would agree it is harder now to attract members willing to commit to one art only.
 
Personally I am not a lover of MMA, mainly because I feel that it is modern day gladiators and at some point I believe it will change and to win you will have to render the opponent unconcious or dead. However the guys who do it I have big respect as I personally wont do it as I like my good looks Smile
 
Seriously though do you feel TKD will waver the storm or will it become a victim of the new culture of learn a bit of this and that, get good and test how hard you are and who you can beat up. We oftern get post on youtube saying how c**p TKD is but this is from people who have had no real teaching in TKD perhaps a bad situation so they bag it all the time.
 
Traditional arts teach everything and they tend to be for the white collar generation and are universal but the MMA it poses a threat as many watch it and question exactly the strength of TKD, If they bothered to see TKD is a life art they would see it has much to offer.
 
What do you all think.... Yes I ask as I have students who cross train and this is a question I am frequently asked.
 
Your opinion counts, what do you think?
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 2
Top Mon 14th Apr 2008 11:54
David Sims
View Profile
Joined: 30/05/2007
Topics: 3 Replies: 14
Mr Snow,

I believe that mma is the ultimate combat sport. The sport has evolved immensely since the early days when there were very little rules and now it is a relatively safe sport.

I also train Brazilian ju-jitsu and the guy that runs the club in Derby always has a packed club. I think that this may be to do with the fact that wrestling on the ground is more like a 'real fight' so to speak, rather than punching thin air, which is a big part of traditional arts. You know what kids are like!

It is worth noting the attitude surrounding mma. Many gyms have this attitude and a lot of people are not really that skilled when they proclaim to be a cage fighter. Although there are also people out there that are immensely skilled, cardio mo-sheens!

As for your thoughts that it will evolve into a more violent sport, I would have to respectfully disagree. In most mma fights there are a few ways of winning. Make your opponent submit - Verbally or by tapping out. The corner can stop a fight. The ref can call a tko if someone is getting hammered. If a fighter can not intelligently defend himself then the referee will call n end to the fight. There is no standing ten counts as within boxing. This is where most of the dangerous punches happen, no?

As for fighting to the death, well there have been a couple of cases in mma where a fighter has died after/during a fight and also in training. I think that as soon as someone dies in the ring whilst on tv/ppv the media will jump on it and we could face a backlash! But did that not happen back in the orient with traditional arts?
Post # 3
Top Mon 14th Apr 2008 12:50
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
Mr Sims, I think your points are valid, it is definatly the ultimate combat sport but as you may have guessed it is not my cup of tea, We regulary cross train at our National Training Days, and it is fun esp when you allow grabs and take downs, choke outs and holds as you learn about your weaknesses.

We have an 8th Degree attending this years training day (Ground and pound session) and he teaches many MMA sessions but as I said its not somthing I would teach full time.

The question is however will MMA damage the traditional systems or rather has it already? we all have opinions on it I just thought it would be good to see what others think.

My opinion, MMA has moved from the back of the class to the frount now esp as media is backing it 100% look at TKD Korean Arts mag 'GONE' now we have to share the kombat magazine if we are lucky - who gets all the main features MMA.

TV - WOW the coverage of MMA cage rage, UFC are dominating the airways if only Tae Kwon Do was shown we would tripple our general memberships.

Fact is when you say I do TKD to a friend everyone thinks of WTF - the reply why fight with ya hands down yet ITF is totally opposite of the WTF if we got exposed we too would be seen as a strong art - all be it we don't ressel on the floor in sparring.
 
sombody help usCry




C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 4
Top Mon 14th Apr 2008 14:39
Joel Ashley Wilson

GBR-3-2016
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 6 Replies: 25
to me, this is a very open-ended discussion and like most issues, there is no perfect answer or solution really.

MMA can not solely be a cause or blamed for a dip in practicioners or interested potential Taekwon-Do students. for people with no experience or knowledge of a Martial Art, it is considerably harder to convince them what the actual benefits of ITF Taekwon-Do are.

With MMA, the message is clear, these Martial Artists practice fighting to simply put it. there is no history, no style, there is no Federation or body for support. Yes we have our national or regional club groups, we're not known as ITF group no 1, ITF group no 2..... etc.
if you take away the badgets, the national bodies, the associations, the affiliates... we are all ITF direct members & students, an unified international system.

we grade under the guidance rules and regulations of the ITF, certificates from the ITF, Umpires from the ITF, International Instructors from the ITF.
in terms of the Modern day Martial Art, i believe personally that ITF Taekwon-Do is that Modern Day Martial Art but some people do not know this unless they are told this and even then, they need to experience it to really understand it.

i find it hard to agree and disagree with MMA. the advantage is that it does good for all arts by promoting martial arts regardless of mixed or solo it just also promotes the message that learn everything to become a rounded "fighter" whereas Taekwon-Do promotes to learn everything in the Taekwon-Do system to become a true Martial Artists or as we know, a Master of the Art.
this is the beginning of something special
Post # 5
Top Mon 14th Apr 2008 15:11
Joel Ashley Wilson

GBR-3-2016
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 6 Replies: 25
the point i was trying to get at but rambled away from it that all of us have trained over years in Martial Arts and Taekwon-Do, some people over decades and have seen people decide to leave or cross train.
in my opinion, the less dedicated ITF students that follow or practice other arts are unfortunately killing the Art, not MMA. MMA as a non-professional fighting art, in terms of a hobbie or fitness club are no threat to ITF Taekwon-Do as they have no structure. one of my work colleagues joined a local MMA Karate group. when i speak to him, he continuously moans about irregular grading dates, changes to grading requirements and system, lack of unified suits and belts, never have i had to think twice let alone once about this problems and that during all my part ITF and 100% ITF training.

in my opinion, the people who i have trained with since day 1 that were training for the wrong reason (only to attain their 1st Dan, to learn new techniques, to increase their MA Vocabulary or simply to learn the flashy techniques they have seen in Console Games, Films or Television shows) don't get the real Taekwon-Do experience.

i still remember when i used to train locally to my home, there was a MMA group in the hall before us. if i arrived early i used to watch them and be confused. when we trained, we trained as a group and the instructor was the instructor. i noticed that the intructor would focus on one or two people at a time working on ground work and the others were left to their own training meaning they were their own instructors. i can't teach myself Juche or Choi Yong properly, i will always need professional guidance.

this is where i can't see the threat of MMA killing off traditional Arts like Taekwon-Do, the foundations are too strong, the trust and honour is too strong.
If the ITF can survive a serious blow like the ITF spliting up into "three" groups without any crumbling since the parting, MMA is the small fish trying to swim into the ITF which is more like an Ocean than a Pond.
this is the beginning of something special
Post # 6
Top Tue 15th Apr 2008 00:57
Mr Snow

GBR-5-1019
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 58 Replies: 164
Mr Wilson, You make some fair points, Mine was that since 1994 when I started coaching I have seen less commited students attend the classes, I have a large school and many serious commited members who will be there 24/7 but it has taken years to get this and loads of money and hard work. Out of say 150 new recruits that attend per year only 20 per year stay long term as most just want the kicks and want to then go and get other skills else where or so it seems. MMA has done this in my opinion.

Like you I think ITF and Traditional arts will waver the storm, I also think that TKD has much more to offer then many think, It is a life art that teaches us to accept that we are all battling against a war in life with ourselves, everything we achieve during our training is another hurdle we thought was impossible in the beginning, The respect between our TKD family for instance is great, yes there are many in the same family that argue and may dislike others just the same as any family will have siblings argue but at the end of the day we are all united in the art that we all love and cherish. Traditional arts teach values and respect and know matter what anyone says all have there strengths and weaknesses.

If we however could get ITF noticed like MMA now that would be somthing but it will never happen or will it?
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 7
Top Tue 15th Apr 2008 10:01
sean mullin

GBR-4-1090
View Profile
Joined: 03/01/2008
Topics: 6 Replies: 28
mr snow, i can't quite remember where but i read somewhere that the itf had signed a deal with an american network to show full contact sparring matches on t.v. maybe i just picked it up wrong or maybe there is some truth in this?? this could be the type of exposure that's needed and if successful could lead to it been shown in other countries. if anyone knows anything about this maybe they could give us some more info on it.
p.s i think it might have been in combat or mai magazine
Post # 8
Top Tue 15th Apr 2008 10:22
Joel Ashley Wilson

GBR-3-2016
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 6 Replies: 25
I completely agree Mr Snow,
your absolutely right as a family can never be perfect. We all play the black sheep or ugly duckling at some point whether that is through jealously or through competition.
but then a family must have competition in order to move forward! if one person, group or Nation advances... the rest will follow or try to take the lead... aka the Worlds Champs, Euro Champs or National Champs!
Healthy competition between or in nations under one united Federation.

i think if TKD made it through to larger scale MMA events, i believe it would affect students, new and old. The world today is too quick to judge without a spared thought for the real situation, the televised MMA fighters generally are either full time or virtually full time, they probably don't train once or twice a week for 1-2hours, more likely four or five times a week for 4-5 hours!

like in K-1 (which i agree with) when TKD'ers entering these new styled events like MMA, it shows a difference in training and teaching, we have dambled or worked on all elements of sparring at some point; ground sparring, holds & locks, take downs, stand up sparring but in tournaments, only standing sparring counts therefore the others are not so essential apart from senior gradings.

my fear is that some younger students may ask to learn the techniques they have seen on MMA shows, ground work and locks as they might fall to peer pressure and the media's portrayal.
this is the beginning of something special
Post # 9
Top Tue 15th Apr 2008 10:45
Joel Ashley Wilson

GBR-3-2016
View Profile
Joined: 04/12/2006
Topics: 6 Replies: 25
i'll lastly add (then i'll shut up!)
when youngsters see the future of Taekwon-Do or leaders of Taekwon-Do, this can fuel the next or current generation to want to emulate their seniors or juniors.

Before i joined a 100% ITF group, i saw at tournaments and videos from the net of the seniors and juniors of the group, they left a lasting impression on me.
I have always wanted to have the ability and control of my seniors and juniors (juniors in regard to grade and age). i still attend tournaments and seminars, even training and witness talent that i desire to even be able to copy!

when you look to the front of the hall and back of the hall, in fact, all round the hall, you want to feel like that the people around you are there for the same reason and as a group to advance together and advance as individual too.

when i arrive at training early now, i have watched how many of the junior kids look up to the two young 2nd Dans who assist in the class, which inspires them to advance and how the assistant instructors looks up to our senior/Int'l instructor who in turn looks up to the top seniors and/or master and as a group how we all look up to the Master.

i believe now, to captivate the younger or lower grades, they need to want to be like their senior (or junior). when you have someone in front of you that clearly shows that Taekwon-Do has benefited and worked for them, then MMA in my opinion is taken out of the question and situation.

i still remember talking to a member from the association i am part of from a different club and region in Germany's Euro Champs 06' stating that they looked at one of the seniors like a Hero and inspiration towards their training.
At first i didnt understand it as they had never had a proper interaction or trained together but i later realized that you don't need to know the person, their ability will shine through and get around without a word being passed between the two of them, also the advantage of Internet Videos and this website.
this is the beginning of something special
Post # 10
Top Wed 16th Apr 2008 10:20
David Sims
View Profile
Joined: 30/05/2007
Topics: 3 Replies: 14
Can I just add that I have my first full contact mma bout coming up on May 17th 08 @ The Nyatango Leisure Centre, Wales, against a guy called Hayden Critchfield who has a record of 1-1-0. This will be my first fight and you dun' kno that i'll be wearing my dobok and tie when I enter the cage!!!
Post # 11
Top Sun 20th Apr 2008 16:32
Bob Borja

GER-6-1004
View Profile
Joined: 10/01/2007
Topics: 27 Replies: 123
Greetings from Germany,

MMA has also come to my region of Germany in both competition and training for many years now. It does not have a good image, however. In the first and only championships held in this area about four years ago, the town mayor politely refused an invitation to open the event with the belief that the sport was not a good thing. There is only one trainer within commuting distance and the sport seem to have drawn only a handful of loyal students.

I have not lost students to that sport, but on the contrary have gained several from it.

No, I do not think MMA means an end to traditional martial arts like Taekwon-Do. MMA and other martial arts draw a different following, which is good. Each martial artist should find a home best suited to his/her needs. Cross-training between martial arts is also a good thing.

One advantage of Taekwon-Do over MMA is the belt system as one way of judging one’s personal accomplishment; without attempting to bash another human's brain in.

Mr. Sims,
Good luck on your full-contact MMA debut March 17. Please leave your Dobok at home.

                                                           Vincit qui se vincit.                                                                  
                                             He conquers who conquers himself.                                                     

Jump to the top of the page Posts 1 to 11 of 11
 Start a new topic
© International Taekwon-Do Federation Ltd