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SO SAN

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Original Message Post # 1
Thu 8th May 2008 08:31
Mr Snow

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I have now learnt si-jon and so San fully and now I am preparing the patterns with power and tecniqal side required but I have a question on So-San - On both the side kicks are they full power are these full power also the pivot to do the turn kicks seems to take three movements is there a way to do these smothly.
 
Anyone know.
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
WWW.UK-LTSI.COM
Post # 2
Top Thu 8th May 2008 14:28
Mr Snow

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Ooops typo are the two turning kicks full power also?
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Post # 3
Top Fri 9th May 2008 02:38
Nick Malefyt

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Mr. Snow,

Se-Jong is beautiful in its simplicity. OK fine I am just helping with the spelling!

Regarding So-San I think you are speaking of the side piercing kick - side turning kick consecutive kick? I don't think either would be executed less powerful then you are capable if that makes sense? Execute the kicks as strong as you can

This is also one of those rare times where different Master's will teach what happens with the hands a bit differently. In the U.S. after the side piercing kick we form a forearm guarding block while doing the side turning kick. I say side turning kick because the kick is executed to D. Master Rai has reaffirmed this method

A year or two ago Master Nicholls showed us another application in that the hands stay out (maintaining the horizontal strike with the twin knife hands) and the movement is done in a releasing motion. I don't know if this is still done? Both methods have practical applications -

Either way it takes time to develop the balance and power to execute it - so just keep working on it. You have plenty of time. Also practice the combination using pads. Another suggestion I would give - be sure to keep the knee chambered high after the side piercing kick - lowering it makes it even harder to turn and the side turning kick will take on a more diagonal line.

Taekwon,

Nick Malefyt, V Dan
US-ITF
Post # 4
Top Fri 9th May 2008 08:33
Mr Snow

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Mr Malefyt,
Thanks thats confirmed a few things - I tend to kick high on both kicks anyway due to flexibility, I already keep the knee high so thats good I just find the move seems to be a very bumpy movement to the turns oh well keep working and it may get better.

Tae Kwon
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
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Post # 5
Top Fri 9th May 2008 09:40
Mark Skyrme

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The movement between the kicks is some what difficult to perform smoothly. Flexibility does help but practise, practise, practise is the only way Wink
 
I train under Master Nicholls and we do keep the arms in place between the kicks, our reasoning is as follows:
9. Move the right foot to C turning clockwise to form a parallel stance toward A while executing a horizontal strike with a twin knife-hand.

10. Execute a high side piercing kick to C with the right foot keeping the position of the hands as they were in 9.

11. Execute a high turning kick to D with the right foot. Perform 10 and 11 in a continuous kick.

Movement 10 instructs the arms to be kept horizontal for the side kick, movement 11 then states that the Side Kick and the Turning Kick to be executed in a continuous motion thus the hands remain constant throughout movements 10 and 11.
 
On a personal note i find it much harder to execute the techniques when the hands remain horizontal, but that may just be me Unhappy
 
Master Nicholls regularly reminds us that that Master Choi's continually research into movement / pattern application may in fact bring different teaching methods to the forefront, outlining the importance of continual Instructor development / training. I am also informed by Master Nicholls that there will be a technical update section for the website highlighting these updates helping to standardise our ITF.
 
Mark Skyrme

facile est inventis addere.
it is easy to add to things already invented.
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Post # 6
Top Fri 9th May 2008 11:52
Mr Snow

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If you look at the DVD (COM-DO) that the late General made prior to his passing there is a guy performing the two kicks as discibed but these are mid section which totally throws you when you read the encyclopedia and it says high kicks, His  movement seems fluent, We have some seminars coming up so I will ask the Masters to look at So-San and see what they think.

I have all the moves correct just little things are winding me up as I have tried many ways and found they creat new problems.... Arh the joys of learning, oh well back to the drawing board and see if I can perfect them.
Thanks.
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
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Post # 7
Top Fri 9th May 2008 12:21
Mark Skyrme

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Mr Snow,
 
It may also help to know that Master Choi declared the 1999 edition of the Condensed Syllabus as the reference book for our ITF. Any future amendments will be made to text printed in those pages.
 
There are allot of helpful learning tools out there (Some New, Some Old) but all contain a certain amount of inconsistencies with regards to movements in particular patterns, nevertheless they can prove very useful and most have something to offer. 
 
I am aware there have been some updates made by Master Choi and the Technical Committee with regards to the book and these will be released publicly in the near future.
 
Hope that helps
 
Mark Skyrme
 
 

facile est inventis addere.
it is easy to add to things already invented.
www.tkd.co.uk

Post # 8
Top Fri 9th May 2008 15:34
Mr Snow

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I have the 1999 version of the book (The Blue one) plus the DVD range colour belt and Degree and the CD's but I never use the CD's as take too long to use. The DVD is a great tool as I project it onto a 12 foot screen once a month at the BB training and we go through the patterns together as per the on-screen, We try and mimmic all the moves so updates on this web are going to be fab as we can simply tip ex out and change to the new updates.

Looking forward to the changes, Already doing the Ki - Ops but this is proving to be a task in itself.

Regards
C.R.SNOW 5TH DEGREE
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Post # 9
Top Mon 12th May 2008 01:50
Nick Malefyt

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While on the topic...

Mr. Skyrme thanks for the heads up on the 99 version.

The '93 version makes clear movement #10 - executing a high side piercing kick while maintaining the horizontal strike - but logically the hands have to move from shoulder height to tipping up slightly along with the kick. So most people - including on the DVD's - execute a middle side piercing kick to clearly maintain the horizontal strike. Now the '93 version does say to form a forearm guarding block on the side turning kick.

Now to me, I understood the concept when Master Nicholls showed it to us in both PA and Reno 2 years ago. My only personal thought - and I reiterate personal - is why would we need to perform the movement in a releasing motion after hitting someone with a side piercing kick - would they still be holding on? At this point I would say a middle side piercing kick makes sense from an application standpoint - if you perform a horizontal strike and someone grabs it (and was holding on) the rib cage would be an attractive target. The attackers hand would not be in the way. Now this concept may, at the same time, explain why it can be applied in a releasing motion - to open a high section target area (where the person's hand who grabbed you would not be in the way) . Possibly the releasing motion will also help turn the body into the side turning kick.

As the updates get more "authoratative" it will indeed be helpful. But my thought is that ITF Taekwon-Do should make sense to the practitioner.. So it is a matter of making it make sense - if that makes sense!

Taekwon,

Nick Malefyt
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